Four of the 5 people in this group have now done the Big Y test. In my previous post, I described how the first three of these (kits IN102000, 778791, 961903) tested positive for for the SNP marker FTC36168, and two of these three shared an additional SNP marker further downstream (FTC27440).
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| The 5 members of Group 3g - note the newly-defined "terminal SNPs" in green text (second-last column) |
These results allowed us to say with confidence that the MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) for these three initial test-takers (namely Sean na Firinne 1740) carried the SNP marker FTC36168, and subsequently passed it down to all 3 of his descendants. Similarly, we concluded that the MRCA for participants 778791 & 961903, namely Tomás 1808, carried the SNP marker FTC27440. These "triangulation points"are indicated by the green triangles numbered 8 and 9 respectively in the diagram below.
This placement has important implications because it allows us to estimate how long ago the common ancestor of all four Big Y test-takers lived. Their common ancestor would have sat on the branch above them all, characterised by the lead SNP BY152739 (he would have carried all 5 SNPs in the "SNP Block" associated with this branch and would have passed them all on to his descendants, including all four of the Big Y Test-takers in Group 3g).
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| The Kilmilkin O'Malley's (Group 3g) showing their lines of ascent to Sean na Firinne O'Malley 1740, their MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) |
The latest results are for member 590126 and, like many people in the O'Malley DNA Project, his
O'Malley line hits a Brick Wall in the early 1800s.
But the next point is really important. His results place him on a branch adjacent to the first three test-takers discussed above. You can see where they all sit in relation to each other on the Tree of Mankind in the diagram below (from the Big Y Block Tree). The latest Big Y test-taker sits on the branch characterised by the SNP marker FT280617 and which includes 2 other SNP markers, including FT113717 which is deemed to be his current "terminal SNP".
This placement has important implications because it allows us to estimate how long ago the common ancestor of all four Big Y test-takers lived. Their common ancestor would have sat on the branch above them all, characterised by the lead SNP BY152739 (he would have carried all 5 SNPs in the "SNP Block" associated with this branch and would have passed them all on to his descendants, including all four of the Big Y Test-takers in Group 3g).
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| Group 3g on the Tree of Mankind - "Your Branch" indicates where the latest Big Y tester sits. The first 3 test-takers sit on the adjacent two branches to his right. |
But judging by the number of SNPs below this point (about 9 - see column to the left) we can get a crude idea of when this overarching common ancestor lived. Allowing an average of 80 years per SNP, gives us a time estimate of 9 x 80 = 720 years. If we subtract this from the presumed average year of birth of the test-takers (say 1950), then this gives us a very crude date of (1950-720=) 1230 AD. We should add a broad range around this estimate as it is based on very crude calculations, so let's say +/-300 years. This gives us a date range of 930-1530 AD. [see revised age estimates discussed in the update at the end of this article]
But even allowing for the youngest limit of this very wide range (1530), this means that the O’Malley surname has been associated with this particular DNA signature for at least 500 years (more or less). This serves to illustrate how the Big Y results of people who have Brick Walls around the 1800 timepoint, can be very useful to the interpretation of the data we are currently collecting for the Finding Grace project. These latest results indicate that Group 3g is in fact a very ancient branch of the O'Malley's.
Also, because the latest test-taker does not sit on the same branch as the other 3 Big Y test-takers in the group, we can conclude that he does not descend from Sean na Firinne O’Malley 1740, the reported ancestor of the other three, but rather, from a distant ancestor of Sean na Firinne, probably someone who lived prior to 1500 AD and possibly closer to 1200AD.
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| Another view of Group 3g on the Tree of Mankind (click to enlarge) See DCG cladogram at https://dcg.genealogy.network/R1b-BY145238 |
A final important point to note is that there are a number of people called Burks who sit on the same branch as the latest test-taker. I had initially thought that the Group 3g O'Malley's may have carried the Burks surname before carrying the O'Malley surname. But because the DNA signature for these Burks and O'Malley men is definitely Gaelic (i.e. they all fall below M222 which is associated with north/west Ireland and Scotland) rather than an Anglo-Norman DNA signature, this would further suggest that there would have been a prior switch to the Burks surname. And because we know the Anglo-Norman Bourke's came into Ireland after 1200 AD, the switch would have occurred some time after that. So the sequence of surname switches I envisioned would have been something like: Gaelic surname c.1000 AD > switch to Burks (after 1200 AD) > switch to O'Malley surname (before 1740).
But with these latest results, an alternative hypothesis (and possibly more plausible) is that the O'Malley name came first and there was a surname switch to Burks somewhere along the line i.e. Gaelic surname c.1000 > switch to O'Malley surname > switch to Burks (after 1200 AD).
But what was the "Gaelic surname" that was the first to be associated with Group 3g's DNA signature? Surnames on adjacent branches include: Dougherty (x3), Kerrigan (x1), Conway (x1), O'Neill (x1). Could it have been one of these?
This will require some further investigation in due course.
Maurice Gleeson
May 2022
Update August 2022:
The new "Discover More" feature on the FTDNA website uses a new age estimating technology that provides us with better age estimates for the various branches of the Tree of Mankind. Using this new feature, we can now assign updated age estimates for each of the branches associated with Group 3g. The age estimates are referred to as TMRCA estimates, where TMRCA stands for "Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor".
Since the original article above, there have been some slight refinements to this portion of the Tree of Mankind and the revised diagram is included below. Dates for the relevant branches are as follows (given as a central estimate and a range):
FT116143 ... 950 years ago (+/-300 years) ... see more details here
BY152739 ... 450 years ago (+/-200 years) ... see more details here
FT280617 ... 450 years ago (+/-200 years) ... see more details here
FTC36168 ... 350 years ago (+/-200 years) ... see more details here
FTC27440 ... 150 years ago (+/-200 years) ... see more details here
And from these age estimates we can surmise the following:
- the common ancestor for everyone under FT116143 lived about 1100 AD
- the common ancestor for everyone under BY152739 lived about 1600 AD
- the common ancestor for everyone under FT280617 lived about 1600 AD
- the common ancestor for everyone under FTC36168 lived about 1700 AD
- the common ancestor for everyone under FTC27440 lived about 1800 AD
Thus, the common ancestor for the O'Malley's of Group 3g would have carried the SNP marker BY152739 and the revised age estimate for this is about 1600 AD. More specific TMRCA estimates, together with a 95% Confidence Interval, can be found by clicking on the Scientific Details tab. And this reveals that the more specific central estimate for this SNP marker is 1562 AD, with a 95% Confidence Interval of 1368 AD to 1707 AD.
In effect, this means that the O'Malley surname has been associated with this particular SNP marker for at least 300 years, and more like 450 years, but it could even be as much as 650 years.
These TMRCA estimates will continue to evolve over time as more people do the Big Y test and more data accumulates that can be applied to these age calculations.
Maurice Gleeson
Aug 2022
It seams that the three Doherty testers have a not to distant common ancestor. Just curious Maurice, how to these all compare with the Doherty DNA project which I am apart off
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Tony Doherty
Hi Tony
DeleteI did a little more exploration of the association.
The common ancestor between the Doherty's and the O'Malley / Burks group carried the SNP marker BY145238. There are approximately 16 SNPs back to this common ancestor which translates to (80 x 16 =) 1280 years before present, or roughly 670 AD (+/-300 years). So it looks like the connection would have been prior to the introduction of surnames. And therefore, if there was a surname switch from a Gaelic surname to "O'Malley", it is unlikely that the prior surname would have been Doherty or Conway.
A more likely candidate might have been "O'Neill" (based on a single result) but even then the common ancestor lived approximately (80 x 14 =) 1120 years before present, or 830 AD (+/-300 years). This gives a range of 530 to 1130 AD, which could have been during the period when surnames were introduced, so this remains a possibility, but only a very very tentative one (as it is based on such crude calculations).
The closest group in the Doherty project would be Group 02.2.01, all the members of which appear to be descendants of Cornelius Doherty 1735-1800.
Best, Maurice