This is Part 2 of a summary of the current status of the Group 3 subgroups. The previous post (Part 1) covered Groups 3a1 to 3d.
Groups 3e & 3f
As I mentioned at the recent Clan Gathering, these groups needed some reorganisation. There is only 1 person in Group 3e (a Molloy man) and 9 in Group 3f (eight O'Malley's and a Mealey).
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| The former Groups 3e & 3f on the project's Y-DNA Results Page |
Several of the group members have now done the Big Y test (see the last column above) and looking at where they all sit on the Tree of Mankind (aka Y-Haplotree) indicates that they all share a common ancestor >1000 years ago and therefore should belong in separate subgroups, rather than being grouped together. Accordingly, I have reorganised them into Groups 3e, 3f, 3h and 3i. Group 3g already exists (and is discussed below).
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| Time Tree showing branch A10528 (red icon). The Surname Emergence Era is marked on the timescale by the green bar. (click to enlarge) |
Group 3e - Molloy / Malloy (since 1650?) ... BY71053
The Group 3e individual (a Molloy) stays in his current group. His Big Y results currently place him on the BY71053 branch, which has an age estimate of 1110 AD (see diagram below in Group 3f section). There are 4 people on this branch but they all have different surnames (Molloy, Joyce, McNamara, & Gaitens) so there is no dominant surname on this branch and this limits our ability to develop theories regarding its evolution.
Among his Y-STR matches, he matches a man called Malloy, who has not done the Big Y test but has tested to Y-DNA111. Their Genetic Distance is 5/111 and the Time Predictor tool estimates that the common ancestor may have lived about 1650 (but with a large range of 1450-1800).
If his match did the Big Y test we would get a more precise age estimate for their common ancestor. But nevertheless, it looks like this particular branch is quite old and the Molloy / Malloy surname may have been associated with this particular DNA signature for at least the last 400 years or so. So the chances of a Surname / DNA Switch prior to this time (i.e. between 1000 AD and 1650 AD) is about 21-36%.
Most of his stronger matches are from Ireland so this was probably the place of origin for his direct male line. Remaining questions include: where in Ireland did the surname arise? and when?
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| Map showing ancestral origins of top 111-marker matches |
Group 3f - O'Malley, since 1350, Mayo? ... FT375497
Four individuals remain in Group 3f, all with the surname O'Malley. Three of them have done the Big Y test, and the fourth has tested to 37 markers.
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| The revised Groups 3f on the project's Y-DNA Results Page |
The Time Tree below shows that all three Big-Y testers share a common ancestor who passed on the DNA marker FT375497 (red icon below) to them all, and he lived about 1355. Two of the men share a more recent common ancestor who passed on the DNA marker FT375593 and he was born about 1649.
Note that one of the Big Y test-takers who sit on this branch (FT375497) is a man called Byrne whose EKA (Earliest Known Ancestor) was a Byrne (born 1824). So there was probably a DNA switch somewhere along this man's direct-male-line, which resulted with the Byrne surname becoming associated with "O'Malley 3f" DNA. Where, when and why this happened currently remains a mystery.
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| Time Tree showing branches BY71053 (Group 3e) and FT375497 (Group 3f; red icon). The Surname Emergence Era is marked on the timescale by the green bar. (click to enlarge) |
So from the above analysis we can deduce that the O'Malley surname has been associated with the particular DNA signature of the men in this group for about the last 700 years at least (or thereabouts). And the chances of there being some sort of Surname / DNA Switch prior to that (between 1000 AD & 1355 AD) is about 12-20%.
Ancestral locations provided by two of the four men include: a) Rabaun, Deerpark, Co. Mayo, Ireland; b) Co. Mayo, Ireland. The Matches Map of one of the members shows Ireland as a place of origin for many of the stronger matches with a preponderance of locations in the northwestern half of Ireland. So it may be that this particular group originated in Mayo or somewhere nearby.
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| Map showing ancestral origins of top 111-marker matches |
Group 3g - the Kilmilkin O'Malley's of "Seán na Firinne"; since 1500 ... BY152739
There are 9 men in this group, six of them with the surname O'Malley. Three have different names - O'Neill, Kerrigan & Doe.
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| Group 3g on the project's Y-DNA Results Page |
Seven of these men have done the Big Y test, most of them as part of the ongoing Finding Grace project, because their recorded genealogies suggested that they were descendants of "Seán na Firinne" O'Malley (i.e. "John the Truthful"), who in turn was a descendant of Dermot O'Malley, born about 1490, who was the paternal uncle of Grace O'Malley, the Pirate Queen. A pedigree chart illustrates this below.
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| Descendants of "Seán na Firinne" O'Malley (c.1740) as well as his line of descent from Dermot O'Malley (c.1490) and the 3 Big Y test-takers (blue boxes, blue lines) and their associated DNA markers FTC36168 & FTC27440 |
The Time Tree (below) shows that the 6 O'Malley men share a common ancestor who passed on (to all of them) the DNA marker BY152739. This common ancestor was born about 1505 AD, and this genetic estimate is close to the estimated birth year of Dermot O'Malley (c.1490) from the recorded genealogies, so it could be that this DNA marker arose in Dermot and he passed it on to all his descendants. However, it is equally plausible that the DNA marker arose a few generations above Dermot or a few generations below him - it is impossible (with the available data) to pinpoint exactly when and in whom the DNA marker first arose. It's like playing DNA "pin the tail" with a blindfold.
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| "I think I know where to put this ..." |
The BY152739 branch splits into two sub-branches. The FTC36168 sub-branch has an age estimate of 1569 AD (range 1292-1761), which falls between Thomas Óg O'Malley (born 1553) and his son Tuathal (Too-hill) O'Malley (born 1583) in the recorded genealogies (see second figure above). So this particular DNA marker may have arisen in either of these men, or a few generations above them, or a few generations below them, and was passed down to Seán na Firinne, who in turn passed it down to all his descendants. This assumes that the recorded genealogies are correct, which may not be the case.
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| Time Tree showing branch BY152739 (red icon). The Surname Emergence Era is marked on the timescale by the green bar. (click to enlarge) |
A further sub-branch below this (FTC27440) has an age estimate of 1824 (range 1644-1936), which is reasonably close to the birth year of the common ancestor recorded in the genealogies of the two Big Y test-takers on this branch, namely Tomás O'Maille, born 1808. So it may be that this DNA marker (FTC27440) arose in Tomás, or in his father, Tomás (c.1780), but not in his grandfather (Seán na Firinne) because it is absent from the third Big Y test-taker (kit IN102000, bottom left in third figure above). This again assumes that the recorded genealogies are correct.
A second sub-branch of BY152739 is FT280617. An O'Malley man sits on this branch, but below it is another sub-branch (BY153298) on which sit 3 men called Burk / Burks. This is a good example of an SDS (Surname / DNA Switch) - they are Burks by name but "O'Malley 3g" by DNA. Judging by the age estimate of the branches, the switch occurred sometime between 1586 and 1613 (the age estimates for FT280617 and BY153298 respectively). We don't know why this switch occurred but it could have been for a variety of reasons (see the articles here and here for a full explanation of the possibilities, both modern and medieval).
The 3 men with non-O'Malley surnames (Kerrigan, Doe, O'Neill) are related to the O'Malley men via a common ancestor who lived prior to the Surname Emergence Era in Ireland (950-1150AD), and therefore should not technically be in this group, but they are included for comparison purposes (as they are the nearest genetic neighbours).
So, from the above analysis, we can infer that the O'Malley surname has been associated with the Group 3g DNA signature for about the last 500 years at least (or thereabouts). We don't know if the O'Malley surname was carried by the more distant ancestors on this direct-male-line (i.e. prior to 1505) but, statistically, the chances that it was some other surname (i.e. a Surname / DNA Switch occurred) are in the region of 17-28%. It could be that if there was a Surname / DNA switch, the surname prior to the switch was Kerrigan, or Doe, or O'Neill (based on the surnames of the nearest genetic neighbours). Further Big Y test-takers are needed to help address this question.
What we can say is that the DNA signature of this group of Kilmilkin O'Malley's does not match the DNA signature of Group 3a, the largest group within the project and presumed descendants of the O'Malley Clan of Mayo, as recorded in the medieval genealogies. We assume that Grace O'Malley (the Pirate Queen) also belonged to this group, and this would mean that her father, and her father's brother (Dermot O'Malley, born about 1490, and the recorded ancestor of three of the Big Y test-takers in Group 3g) should also have carried the "Group 3a DNA signature". But this assumption is contradicted by the DNA. Dermot's descendants (the 3 Big Y test-takers) do NOT carry the "Group 3a DNA signature", they have a completely different DNA signature. So what does this mean?
It could be that the genealogies are incorrect, and the wrong ancestor has been attached somewhere along the direct-male-line, possibly above "Seán na Firinne". Maybe the wrong Dermot 1490 has been attached to Grace O'Malley's family tree. Another possible explanation is that there was some sort of DNA switch back in the late 1400s - maybe Dermot was fathered by a different man to the one who fathered Grace's father (Owen Dubhdara c.1490).
So which is it? Are the genealogies incorrect? or was there a DNA switch?
These are the questions we need to address. And to do so, one important undertaking is to return to the documentary evidence and build "proof arguments" for each step back from present-day test-takers to Dermot (born 1490) and before him back to Grace's 2x great grandfather (also Dermot, but born about 1400). This entails finding robust primary sources of documentary evidence for each step, generation by generation, back to 1400. And that is a daunting task that will take a lot of work. Such primary sources (e.g. church records, wills/probate, land deeds, original documents) may not exist, and we will have to rely on secondary sources (e.g. books, narratives) which will provide less than robust "proof". But at least the exercise will identify and characterise the gaps in our knowledge.
In parallel, we can try to recruit other supposed descendants of Grace's immediate family and have them do the Big Y test. The more additional people who test, the more light will be shed on this question, and hopefully, eventually, we will have enough information to provide adequate answers.
Group 3h - O'Malley of Clifden, Galway; Hereditary Physicians? ... FTC41265
Two men (both O'Malley) were moved from Group 3f to a new subgroup - Group 3h.
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| Group 3h on the project's Y-DNA Results Page |
Only one of them has done the Big Y test and this shows he sits on the FTC41265 branch of the Tree of Mankind. The age estimate for this branch is 1109 AD, so within the Surname Emergence Era (950-1150). However, there is one branch below this (Y22116) with men called Bellar, Cryans & Lindsey, who all have ancestors with similar surnames, namely Bellah, Ballagh, & Balloch. The age estimate for this branch is 1668, and these 4 men have ancestry in Ireland (x1), Scotland (x1) and Northern Ireland (x2). So were these people O'Malley before they became Ballagh? Or was our O'Malley man a Ballagh before becoming an O'Malley?
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| Time Tree showing branch FTC41265 (red icon). The Surname Emergence Era is marked on the timescale by the green bar. (click to enlarge) |
Another point of interest is that immediately above the FTC41265 branch is the Y22118 branch and this has an age estimate of 1083 AD (so about one generation prior to FTC41265, and still within the Surname Emergence Era, c.950-1150). And sitting on this branch are two men, one called Fergus and the other called Ferguson, but both with EKAs called Fergus and both from Mayo (even though the Ferguson man claims Scottish ancestry). Now this brings to mind the fact that the Fergus family were hereditary physicians to the O'Malley clan of Mayo, as indicated in the passage below from More Irish Families, by Edward MacLysaght (1960, p. 107).
The name Ó Farghuis or Ó Fearghusa takes several forms in English. Apart from Farrissy, which today occurs only occasionally, the two usual forms are Fergus and Ferris. Fergus or O'Fergus is seldom found outside Connacht. Persons so called, who are mainly in Co. Mayo at the present time, are of the sept of Ó Fearghuis, which provided hereditary physicians to the O'Malleys. Knox in his History of Mayo tells us that O'Fergus held the parish of Burrishoole in 1303 and ranked then as a minor chief, a status no longer obtaining in 1585, since they do not figure in the Composition Book of Connacht, though it is known from the Strafford Survey that they were still considerable landholders in Burrishoole and Carra about the year 1635. In that document the name is spelt Farregish, Faregesie and O'Farressie, while in the Mayo Book of Survey & Distribution, compiled some 50 years later, it occured as often as O'Farrissy. It was in the northern end of that county, adjacent to Co. Sligo, that Pendar's "census" shows them, as O'Fergussa, most numerous in 1659.
So it is possible that the Group 3h O’Malley’s are somehow connected with the hereditary physicians of the O’Malley’s. Could it be that one of their descendants adopted the name O'Malley as a sign of loyalty to the clan?
It will be interesting to see how the picture evolves as more Big Y test-takers end up in this portion of the Tree of Mankind. One of the group members has 7 non-Big Y matches at the 25-marker level of comparison whose surnames are either Fergus or Ferguson - these would be ideal candidates for Big Y testing. Three of them have stated they have ancestry from Ireland, and one of them has Mayo as an ancestral homeland.
And in addition, over time, we might also get some clues as to how the Ballagh descendants ended up with that particular surname.
Group 3i
Two other men were moved from the old Group 3f to another new subgroup - 3i. One is O'Malley, the other is Mealey.
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| Group 3i on the project's Y-DNA Results Page |
Both men have done the Big Y test and their results show that they sit on a branch of the Tree of Mankind characterised by the DNA marker FT197717. This has an age estimate of 1585. So this implies that the O'Malley name has been associated with this DNA signature for about 450 years (or thereabouts). Consequently, the chance of an SDS (Surname / DNA Switch) between 1000 AD and 1585 is approximately 19-32%. And if an SDS did occur, the surname prior to O'Malley may have been Davis or Graham (judging by the surnames of the men on the nearest adjacent branch). But it could also have been any other name, or it may be that this group carried the O'Malley name (or a variant thereof) since 1000 AD (or thereabouts). We need more Big Y test-takers to help illuminate this issue.
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| Time Tree showing branch FT197717 (red icon). The Surname Emergence Era is marked on the timescale by the green bar. (click to enlarge) |
People on neighbouring branches are primarily of Irish origin, so it is probable that this group has origins in Ireland. However, there is limited information relating to the birth location of their matches EKAs and for this reason it is not possible to identify more localised options for their ancestral origin.
Group 3
One final individual was moved from the old Group 3f to Group 3 - this is an overarching group for men who are likely to test positive for M222 (or already have) but who don't have any close matches within the project to whom they are likely to be related within the last 1000 years. In time, if anyone in this group matches a new test-taker, they will both be moved into a new subgroup.
So, that concludes the review of the current status of all the various subgroups under the "Group 3" banner. And if we look at their lists of ancestral SNPs, we can see how closely or distantly they are all related to each other ...
- Thus Group 3a1 is the most distantly related to every other subgroup. The common ancestor they share with everyone else passed on the DNA marker Z2959 to all the subgroups and he lived about 50 BC.
- In contrast, Groups 3h and 3i share a common ancestor who passed on the DNA marker Y23074 to all his descendants and he lived about 750 AD.
- But all the subgroups (bar 3a1) share a common ancestor who passed on the DNA marker DF105 to them all and he lived about 200 AD.
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| How all the Group 3 subgroups are related to each other (common ancestors are colour-coded for ease of reference) |
The next article will focus on Group 3a - the Mayo O'Malley's & the Finding Grace project.
Maurice Gleeson
July 2025
