Group 4 Update (July 2019)

Description of the Group

Group 4 consists of three members. Their surnames are Mealey, Meally, and Maley.
MDKA* birth locations are available for two of them - 1) Pennsylvania, USA; 2) Castlecomer, Kilkenny.
Two members have done the Big Y and tested to 111 markers. The third member has tested to 37 markers.

How old is the group?

Genetic Distance indicates the group is quite closely related.

• GD is 2-3/37 and 2/111
• autosomal DNA indicates a probable 2nd cousin match between the first & third members (Mealey-7092 and Maley-1053; 291cM shared) suggesting a common ancestor (MRCA) born about 1850, (probably Thomas Maley 1844-1890 & Bridget Tobin b1849).
• On Ancestry, there is no DNA match between the 2nd & 3rd members (Meally-8068 & Maley-1053), suggesting that they are no closer than 4th cousins, and hence their common ancestor was born about 1790 or beforehand.

The longest pedigree goes back to 1791.

TMRCA** assessment using the TiP Report indicates the MRCA was born around 1860 (50% probability) and most likely after 1710 (95% probability).

The results from the two Big Y tests indicate the group has a SNP Progression*** that ends with the Terminal SNP BY70535, which places the group on a specific branch of the Tree of Mankind, as indicated in the diagram below.

However, the Big Tree version of their position on the Tree of Mankind (see below) has only limited information. Currently only member Maley-1053 has been placed on the Big Tree. The other Big Y test-taker (Meally-8068) should also submit his results to the Big Tree for additional essential (free) analyses (instructions here). This will create a new branch for Group 4 below BY70535.

The Big Tree states that Maley-1053 has 7 unique SNPs. The 7 unique SNPs suggest that the nearest genetic neighbours to Group 4 are at least 700 years ago (allowing 100 years per SNP).

The position of Group 4 (far right) on Big Tree's version of the Tree of Mankind

FTDNA's Big Y Block Tree paints a different picture that creates a degree of confusion. It indicates that the two Big Y test-takers have on average 6 unique / private SNPs and share 11 SNPs in common (all part of a BY70535 SNP block). Allowing 100 years per SNP suggests that the two members will share a common ancestor about 600 years ago (i.e. 1400 AD) and that their nearest genetic neighbours are 1700 years ago (i.e. 600+1100). This is much further back than the assessment using the Big Tree data.

Also, comparing the unique SNPs listed on the Big Tree and on FTDNA's Big Y Block Tree reveals no commonality between the SNPs identified. This could be because they have different naming conventions or because they are using different methods for identifying SNPs. Either way, the Big Y data paints a confusing picture.

The position of Group 4 on FTDNA's Big Y Block Tree

Taking all the available information together suggests that the common ancestor for the group was born some time between 1750 to 1800. Thus it is possible that the common ancestor for the entire group is the MDKA for Meally-8068, namely John Meally born 1791, Cloneen, Castlecomer, Kilkenny.


Where did they come from?

Limited information from the available pedigrees indicates Kilkenny as a possible origin.

Examining the surnames of the nearest genetic neighbours to Group 4 may give some indication of its deeper origins (say 1000-2000 years ago). These surnames are indicated in the Big Tree diagram above and additional genetically-related surnames were harvested from the Big Y Block Tree, the CTS1751 Haplogroup Project, and the STR matches of the group members. Surname Distribution Maps of these surnames indicate four possible origins for Group 4, namely Kilkenny, Down, Clare or Scotland.

Surname Distribution Maps for surnames on adjacent branches of the Tree of Mankind

Conclusions & Next Steps

Group 4 members share a common ancestor probably born some time between 1750-1850. One group member has origins in Kilkenny in the 1700s but deeper origins for the group currently remain obscure - Kilkenny is one definite possibility but so too is Clare, Down, or Scotland.

All members should provide their MDKA* birth locations and Post their Pedigree data.

Meally-8068 should also submit his results to the Big Tree for additional essential (free) analyses (instructions here).

All members should join the CTS1751 Haplogroup Project. Just click this link and sign in to your FTDNA account.

In addition, all group members should join the Ireland Y-DNA Project (click here to join). The Admins in these projects may provide some additional insights and advice on further SNP testing. I am frequently in touch with these Admins about project-related matters.

As more people join the Y-DNA database and more Big Y data becomes available, the deeper origins of Group 4 may become more apparent.

Maurice Gleeson

July 2019

*MDKA, Most Distant Known Ancestor

**TMRCA, Time to Most recent Common Ancestor

*** A SNP Progression is simply the sequence of SNP markers that characterises each branching point on the Tree of Mankind, starting "upstream" at the level of the Haplogroup (R in this case) and progressing all the way "downstream" (i.e. towards the present day) to the Terminal SNP. Comparing SNP Progressions helps us see exactly where each Terminal SNP sits on the Tree of Mankind relative to the others.